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对话亚历山德拉·库珀:性爱女播主的成长经历

对话亚历山德拉·库珀:性爱女播主的成长经历

ALEXANDRA STERNLICHT 2022-12-21
库珀不仅重塑了节目内容,还改写了创作者经济的潜规则。

周五晚上,纽约市肉库区。Spotify最具人气的女性主播感到有点冷,想找个地方喝一杯。就在离这里不远的地方,亚历克德拉·库珀(Alexandra Cooper)启动了播客《叫她爸爸》(Call Her Daddy)。她和当时的搭档索菲亚·富兰克林(Sofia Franklyn)在下东区的公寓里录制节目,详尽描述她们在这座城市色彩斑斓的性爱经历。库珀在早期节目中说:“索菲亚和我每天步行去坐地铁,因为我俩都是没有阔佬包养的土丫头。”现在,一名豪车司机正跟着她在城市里转悠。由此可见,自2018年推出播客以来,这位28岁年轻人的生活和事业发生了多大的变化。

从那时起,库珀将播客简介从“谈性的女孩”(她的话)转变为“榜样”(粉丝的话)。她搬到洛杉矶,单飞了;富兰克林在2020年5月离开了这个播客。每周一期的节目不再重提她的醉酒闹剧,取而代之的是自我护理建议,以及对麦莉·塞勒斯(Miley Cyrus)、海莉·比伯(Hailey Bieber)和朱莉娅·福克斯(Julia Fox)等明星的采访。性仍然是她频频提及的话题。比如,库珀在11月份的节目中讲述了她是如何想尽办法,才清除掉绒面革床头板上的精液污渍。但她也开始谈论一些适合在正式场合收听的时代话题。10月份的一期节目跟随库珀走进了北卡罗来纳州的一家堕胎诊所。在这家诊所,她问一位男性反堕胎抗议者,政府是否应该强制要求男性做输精管切除术。“既然我们开始管理子宫,想必也可以管一管阴茎,对吗?”库珀问道。

听众一开始就被吸引住了,现在依然听得如痴如醉。2021年,超高的节目人气为库珀赢得了流媒体平台Spotify提供的独家授权合同。这份为期三年、价值6000万美元的合同让她成为比肩乔·罗根(Joe Rogan)的顶级原创主播——素有播客之王美誉的罗根据称跟Spotify签订了一份高达2亿美元的独家授权合同,时效为三年半。事实上,库珀的收入超过了真正的王室成员梅根·马克尔(Meghan Markle)和哈里王子(Prince Harry)。有报道称,这对夫妇在2022年与Spotify签署了为期三年,价值在1500万至1800万美元之间的独家合同。

库珀告诉我:“‘爸爸帮’是一个以女性为主的群体,大家很兴奋地坐上这趟过山车,不知道接下来会发生什么,但她们知道,亚历山德拉始终相伴相随。”所谓的“爸爸帮”是指她的粉丝群。“让我们谈谈心理健康,谈谈性爱,谈谈约会,谈谈我们的问题和成就。”

这家流媒体平台宣称,自从库珀独家入驻以来,丰厚的回报让他们深感这笔钱花得太值了。2021年,《叫她爸爸》成为Spotify上仅次于《乔·罗根体验》(The Joe Rogan Experience)的全球第二大受欢迎播客,同时也是最受女性听众欢迎的播客。

“与脱口秀大咖奥普拉和艾伦一样,她有一种直抵人心的本事。”Spotify首席内容官道恩•奥斯特罗夫(Dawn Ostroff)表示,“许多女性对自身的女性特质有不同的理解。她们觉得有权利做自己,对自己的性生活毫无歉意,对自己的抱负不加掩饰,她们谈论自己真正看重的事情,而亚历山德拉确实是这场运动的领导者。”

被粉丝称为“爸爸”的库珀不仅重塑了节目内容,还改写了创作者经济的潜规则。是的,她为高收入女性主播设定了一个新的天花板。但更重要的是,她一直在竭力争取节目版权。据库珀透露,《叫她爸爸》的知识产权,包括播客和周边商品在内,现在都归她一人所有。

“我为《叫她爸爸》付出了那么多心血。毫无疑问,我要拿到它的知识产权,不达目的誓不罢休。”库珀说,“我深知,失去知识产权将对我的职业生涯造成多大的打击。”

当然,她也明白拥有这个知识产权意味着什么。在知识产权和一群狂热粉丝的加持下,库珀不仅跻身最新发布的《财富》40位40岁以下商界精英榜单,而且进入了一个顶级创作者俱乐部。这些头部创作者完全不受内容分发平台的限制。库珀曾经换过一次东家。尽管Spotify待她不薄,但她并没有排除未来会再次改换门庭。

情色魅力

库珀和我在曼哈顿西区漫步的时候,她在10分钟内先后被三位粉丝拦了下来。

“哇,我太兴奋了。”21岁的艾拉·森夏恩(Ella Sunshine)说。这位纽约大学(The New York University)本科生告诉库珀,这个播客帮助她从懵懵懂懂的童年成长起来,学会了如何在纽约生活和约会,一如库珀曾经走过的路。

“ 哦,我的天哪!我爱你!”库珀柔声说,还挤着森夏恩拍了一张自拍照。许多创作者都会说,他们原来无意成为名人。但库珀很早就想出名。

她在宾夕法尼亚州仅有2000人的小镇纽敦长大,就读于一所每年学费高达4.6万美元的预科学校。这位金发碧眼的足球明星最初为波士顿大学(Boston University)代表队效力,2013年至2015年司职中场。但库珀一直渴望成为互联网上的明星,所以选择主修电影和电视专业,潜心磨练她早在青少年时期就开始自学的视频和音频编辑技能。

毕业后,她当时的男友,彼时效力于纽约大都会(New York Mets)的投手诺亚·辛德加德(Noah Syndergaard)帮她在一家创意公司找到一份工作。但库珀不喜欢干,被解雇那一刻,她“喜极而泣”。

“我通过我那位著名的男友找了一份工作,我那时和他住在一起。我自己一无所有,完全失去了自我。”她说。

为了实现自我价值,并扩大自己的知名度,库珀开始跟富兰克林一起制作《叫我爸爸》。两人想重现库珀和大学队友在更衣室里的私密对话。在前几期节目中,富兰克林和库珀鼓励一名男子跟踪他爱慕的对象,建议长得丑的人在做爱时要更卖力一些才能讨得伴侣的欢心,还说性虐待是爱的体现。往好了说,这些建议是有问题的。往坏了说,正如我们在甘斯沃尔特街上碰到的一位粉丝所言,她们的说法是“有毒的”。

“这是两个白人女性在谈论性和性行为,她们的分析浅薄得像路上的水坑。”治疗师、性工作者、心理健康非营利组织Zepp Wellness的创始人拉奎尔·萨维奇(Raquel Savage)这样说道。在她看来,库珀之所以出名,很大程度上是因为她是一个迷人的白人女性。“她们的交谈对于推动女性主义毫无助益,至少没有朝着富有成效的方向推进。”

库珀对过去的某些节目内容感到难堪,但并不后悔。“没有哪位女性能如此率真、诚实,如此直言不讳。”库珀说,“一直以来,我的目标就是让人们瞠目结舌,这个节目就这样起飞了。”

仅仅一期节目上线后,这个播客的情色魅力就吸引了Barstool Sports创始人戴夫·波特诺伊(Dave Portnoy)的注意。这个体育媒体帝国以大男子主义腔调和厌女症倾向而闻名。(新闻网站Insider在2021年发表了两篇报道,指控波特诺伊性行为不端。他否认了这些指控,并以诽谤罪起诉该网站。今年早些时候,一名法官驳回了此案。)2018年,波特诺伊买下了《叫她爸爸》的版权,最初每年向库珀和富兰克林每人支付7.5万美元,外加基于下载量、商品和品牌酒销量的奖金。根据Barstool的说法,这档节目非常受欢迎,库珀和富兰克林第一年的个人收入就达到了50万美元。波特诺伊和Barstool首席执行官艾瑞卡·纳迪尼(Erika Nardini)没有回应《财富》的多次置评请求。

后来,库珀和富兰克林与Barstool的关系不断恶化,因为她们想要更多的钱,以及节目的知识产权。随着谈判陷入僵局,她们停录了一个多月。

波特诺伊率先做出让步。他在2020年5月表态称,只要两人留在Barstool,他愿意提供知识产权、50万美元起薪,以及更高的销售分成比例。据库珀回忆,她同意了,但富兰克林不答应。两人就此分道扬镳,不再共同主持,不再住在一起,也不再是朋友了。“就在戴夫·波特诺伊说‘我愿意提供知识产权’那一刻,我当场表示,‘这就对了,我什么都愿意做。’”库珀说。

富兰克林给出了另一个故事版本。“亚历山德拉并没有打算把事情搞清楚,她告诉我,‘这件事让我来处理吧,以后我自己干。’她确实这样做了。”在播客《勉强出名》(Barely Famous)2022年7月的一期节目中,富兰克林这样说道。她拒绝了《财富》的置评请求。

库珀在Barstool又呆了一年。事实证明,她单干的吸引力更大:《叫她爸爸》成为Spotify上最受欢迎的女性播客,并跻身全球前五名。2021年,Spotify主动找上门来,向库珀提供了一份为期三年、价值6000万美元的独家授权合同。(库珀说亚马逊的报价更高,但她最终选择了Spotify,因为这家流媒体平台承诺不会干涉她的创作自由。亚马逊没有回复《财富》的置评请求。)

“我知道Spotify给我的待遇至少不会比Barstool差,因为他们对平台与创作者关系的定位,正是我想要的。那就是:‘你想怎么做就怎么做。需要帮忙尽管开口。’”库珀说。

库珀当时正打算将播客定位从露骨的性内容转向心理健康等话题。与Spotify签约后,她开始转向。“在很多人眼中,我完全是一个吹箫功夫很棒,乐于分享性知识的女孩。”库珀说,“毫无疑问,这就是我如此成功的原因,但这也损害了我的形象。”

节目内容转向心理健康和长期关系等主题,并没有影响《叫她爸爸》的收听率。2021年,它在Spotify上排名第二。根据市场研究公司尼尔森(Nielsen)的数据,《叫她爸爸》平均每期能吸引超过500万听众。库珀的听众群结构发生了变化。据报道,早期的男女听众比例为40-60,但现在90%是女性。男性听众的流失并没有让库珀感到惊讶:“对男性来说,节目内容的口味有点太重了。”

令人垂涎的消费群体

库珀决定带我去Catch俱乐部餐厅喝一杯。这是她第一次约会的地方,她当时喝了几杯添加了黄瓜和抹茶的龙舌兰酒。我们照样点了一巡。“小心点,这玩意很上头的。”她警告说。就在库珀浅饮的时候,一群20多岁的白人女性向我们走来:“亚历山德拉·库珀!我他妈的爱死你了!”

这些粉丝正是Spotify不惜重金挖来《叫她爸爸》的原因之一。

库珀说,这个播客的主要受众是18到29岁的女性。听众只能在Spotify上收听《叫她爸爸》。这意味着库珀为这个平台吸引了一个令人垂涎的消费群体。

基准资本(Benchmark)的高级分析师马克•兹古托维茨(Mark Zgutowicz)指出:“这些高端的独家节目极其重要。”他列举了《叫她爸爸》和《乔•罗根体验》等例子。“如果这些播客吸引你进入Spotify,那么你就会被扑面而来的精彩内容和强大的播放列表所震撼——特别是相对于苹果音乐(Apple Music)而言——你就不太可能离开了。”

今天,仅Spotify一家平台就有超过470万播客入驻。根据尼尔森的数据,在过去两年,每月收听播客的美国成年人增长了38%,增至6600万人左右。兹古托维茨指出,Spotify通过诸如《叫她爸爸》这类独家播客向品牌方收取五倍的广告费,因为这些内容的受众不仅极其忠诚,而且兴趣明确,堪称“销售金矿”。

11月份,Spotify的股价跌至历史新低,被迫砍掉了内部播客制作团队Gimlet和Parcast。然而,这场动荡不太可能伤及像库珀这样的高人气主播。事实上,在播客行业通讯Hot Pod的首席记者阿里尔•夏皮罗(Ariel Shapiro)看来,随着这家流媒体平台将资源集中投放在备受欢迎的独家节目上,库珀和其他明星主播反倒成了受益者。《叫她爸爸》等优质播客吸引了大批忠实听众,这有助于Spotify摆脱对音乐业务的依赖——这项业务非常烧钱,因为Spotify需要花费巨资从唱片公司获得内容授权。

爸爸最了解自己

在公众场合,库珀对粉丝非常友善。但一回到西好莱坞,被她称为“爸爸公寓”(Dad Pad)的家中——她平日里就是在这套宽敞明亮的公寓中撰写、录制和编辑播客——库珀的好胜本性顿时在她分享的故事中显露无遗。这位明星主播身穿一套宽松、上下身不匹配的运动衫,没有化妆。她向记者回忆起一个让她爆红的时刻。在一期节目中,女演员朱莉娅·福克斯称自己是“《原钻》(Uncut Gems)导演约什·赛佛迪(Josh Safdie)的缪斯女神。”重点是,她用滑稽可笑的“山谷女孩”口音念出了这部电影的名字。这个音频片段后来被超过5.1万个TikTok短视频引用,获得了数百万的浏览量和点赞数。在编辑过程中,一位团队成员建议她删掉这句话,但库珀决定保留。她说,做出类似这样的决定就是她如此亲力亲为的原因所在。

“我比任何人都更了解《叫她爸爸》。”被问到她是否还会挑选一位主持搭档时,库珀非常坚定地表示,“绝对不会。”一个人说了算,意味着她能决定这个播客的命运。她正在与Spotify协商,寻求开创新的工具,以方便听众在平台上与她的内容进行互动。尽管如此,她不排除在2023年与Spotify的合约到期后创建自己的播客平台,或者把《叫她爸爸》带到其他地方。

手握播客的知识产权,让库珀拥有了比其他创作者更多的选择。她打赢了一场一些艺术家输掉了,但大多数人从未尝试过的战争。众所周知,由于未能从她的前东家大机器唱片公司(Big Machine Records) 和音乐大亨斯库特·布劳恩(Scooter Braun)那里拿回自己的作品母带,歌坛天后泰勒·斯威夫特(Taylor Swift)不得不重录了三张录音棚专辑。

“库珀深知,她向世界贡献的东西很有价值。”哥伦比亚大学法学院(Columbia Law School)克诺坎法律、媒体和艺术中心的执行主任菲利帕·朗加德(Philippa Loengard)说,“对于无数年轻艺术家来说,这是个很好的启示。”

库珀使用的媒介和极具个人风格的叙事视角,奠定了她长盛不衰的根基。沃顿商学院(Wharton School)营销学教授、《疯传:让你的产品、思想、行为像病毒一样入侵》(Contagious: Why Things Catch On)一书的作者乔纳·伯杰(Jonah Berger)指出,播客听众通常要比音乐听众更加投入,这往往能加深他们与内容的联系。

目前,库克正专注于让她的播客成为世界第一。“我永远不会把任何东西置于《叫她爸爸》之上,也绝不会仅仅为了一张支票而做什么事情。”她说,“即使这份合同结束后我没有得到另一份合同,我仍然会继续创作的。我做事,从来都是放眼于未来。”(财富中文网)

译者:任文科

周五晚上,纽约市肉库区。Spotify最具人气的女性主播感到有点冷,想找个地方喝一杯。就在离这里不远的地方,亚历克德拉·库珀(Alexandra Cooper)启动了播客《叫她爸爸》(Call Her Daddy)。她和当时的搭档索菲亚·富兰克林(Sofia Franklyn)在下东区的公寓里录制节目,详尽描述她们在这座城市色彩斑斓的性爱经历。库珀在早期节目中说:“索菲亚和我每天步行去坐地铁,因为我俩都是没有阔佬包养的土丫头。”现在,一名豪车司机正跟着她在城市里转悠。由此可见,自2018年推出播客以来,这位28岁年轻人的生活和事业发生了多大的变化。

从那时起,库珀将播客简介从“谈性的女孩”(她的话)转变为“榜样”(粉丝的话)。她搬到洛杉矶,单飞了;富兰克林在2020年5月离开了这个播客。每周一期的节目不再重提她的醉酒闹剧,取而代之的是自我护理建议,以及对麦莉·塞勒斯(Miley Cyrus)、海莉·比伯(Hailey Bieber)和朱莉娅·福克斯(Julia Fox)等明星的采访。性仍然是她频频提及的话题。比如,库珀在11月份的节目中讲述了她是如何想尽办法,才清除掉绒面革床头板上的精液污渍。但她也开始谈论一些适合在正式场合收听的时代话题。10月份的一期节目跟随库珀走进了北卡罗来纳州的一家堕胎诊所。在这家诊所,她问一位男性反堕胎抗议者,政府是否应该强制要求男性做输精管切除术。“既然我们开始管理子宫,想必也可以管一管阴茎,对吗?”库珀问道。

听众一开始就被吸引住了,现在依然听得如痴如醉。2021年,超高的节目人气为库珀赢得了流媒体平台Spotify提供的独家授权合同。这份为期三年、价值6000万美元的合同让她成为比肩乔·罗根(Joe Rogan)的顶级原创主播——素有播客之王美誉的罗根据称跟Spotify签订了一份高达2亿美元的独家授权合同,时效为三年半。事实上,库珀的收入超过了真正的王室成员梅根·马克尔(Meghan Markle)和哈里王子(Prince Harry)。有报道称,这对夫妇在2022年与Spotify签署了为期三年,价值在1500万至1800万美元之间的独家合同。

库珀告诉我:“‘爸爸帮’是一个以女性为主的群体,大家很兴奋地坐上这趟过山车,不知道接下来会发生什么,但她们知道,亚历山德拉始终相伴相随。”所谓的“爸爸帮”是指她的粉丝群。“让我们谈谈心理健康,谈谈性爱,谈谈约会,谈谈我们的问题和成就。”

这家流媒体平台宣称,自从库珀独家入驻以来,丰厚的回报让他们深感这笔钱花得太值了。2021年,《叫她爸爸》成为Spotify上仅次于《乔·罗根体验》(The Joe Rogan Experience)的全球第二大受欢迎播客,同时也是最受女性听众欢迎的播客。

“与脱口秀大咖奥普拉和艾伦一样,她有一种直抵人心的本事。”Spotify首席内容官道恩•奥斯特罗夫(Dawn Ostroff)表示,“许多女性对自身的女性特质有不同的理解。她们觉得有权利做自己,对自己的性生活毫无歉意,对自己的抱负不加掩饰,她们谈论自己真正看重的事情,而亚历山德拉确实是这场运动的领导者。”

被粉丝称为“爸爸”的库珀不仅重塑了节目内容,还改写了创作者经济的潜规则。是的,她为高收入女性主播设定了一个新的天花板。但更重要的是,她一直在竭力争取节目版权。据库珀透露,《叫她爸爸》的知识产权,包括播客和周边商品在内,现在都归她一人所有。

“我为《叫她爸爸》付出了那么多心血。毫无疑问,我要拿到它的知识产权,不达目的誓不罢休。”库珀说,“我深知,失去知识产权将对我的职业生涯造成多大的打击。”

当然,她也明白拥有这个知识产权意味着什么。在知识产权和一群狂热粉丝的加持下,库珀不仅跻身最新发布的《财富》40位40岁以下商界精英榜单,而且进入了一个顶级创作者俱乐部。这些头部创作者完全不受内容分发平台的限制。库珀曾经换过一次东家。尽管Spotify待她不薄,但她并没有排除未来会再次改换门庭。

情色魅力

库珀和我在曼哈顿西区漫步的时候,她在10分钟内先后被三位粉丝拦了下来。

“哇,我太兴奋了。”21岁的艾拉·森夏恩(Ella Sunshine)说。这位纽约大学(The New York University)本科生告诉库珀,这个播客帮助她从懵懵懂懂的童年成长起来,学会了如何在纽约生活和约会,一如库珀曾经走过的路。

“ 哦,我的天哪!我爱你!”库珀柔声说,还挤着森夏恩拍了一张自拍照。许多创作者都会说,他们原来无意成为名人。但库珀很早就想出名。

她在宾夕法尼亚州仅有2000人的小镇纽敦长大,就读于一所每年学费高达4.6万美元的预科学校。这位金发碧眼的足球明星最初为波士顿大学(Boston University)代表队效力,2013年至2015年司职中场。但库珀一直渴望成为互联网上的明星,所以选择主修电影和电视专业,潜心磨练她早在青少年时期就开始自学的视频和音频编辑技能。

毕业后,她当时的男友,彼时效力于纽约大都会(New York Mets)的投手诺亚·辛德加德(Noah Syndergaard)帮她在一家创意公司找到一份工作。但库珀不喜欢干,被解雇那一刻,她“喜极而泣”。

“我通过我那位著名的男友找了一份工作,我那时和他住在一起。我自己一无所有,完全失去了自我。”她说。

为了实现自我价值,并扩大自己的知名度,库珀开始跟富兰克林一起制作《叫我爸爸》。两人想重现库珀和大学队友在更衣室里的私密对话。在前几期节目中,富兰克林和库珀鼓励一名男子跟踪他爱慕的对象,建议长得丑的人在做爱时要更卖力一些才能讨得伴侣的欢心,还说性虐待是爱的体现。往好了说,这些建议是有问题的。往坏了说,正如我们在甘斯沃尔特街上碰到的一位粉丝所言,她们的说法是“有毒的”。

“这是两个白人女性在谈论性和性行为,她们的分析浅薄得像路上的水坑。”治疗师、性工作者、心理健康非营利组织Zepp Wellness的创始人拉奎尔·萨维奇(Raquel Savage)这样说道。在她看来,库珀之所以出名,很大程度上是因为她是一个迷人的白人女性。“她们的交谈对于推动女性主义毫无助益,至少没有朝着富有成效的方向推进。”

库珀对过去的某些节目内容感到难堪,但并不后悔。“没有哪位女性能如此率真、诚实,如此直言不讳。”库珀说,“一直以来,我的目标就是让人们瞠目结舌,这个节目就这样起飞了。”

仅仅一期节目上线后,这个播客的情色魅力就吸引了Barstool Sports创始人戴夫·波特诺伊(Dave Portnoy)的注意。这个体育媒体帝国以大男子主义腔调和厌女症倾向而闻名。(新闻网站Insider在2021年发表了两篇报道,指控波特诺伊性行为不端。他否认了这些指控,并以诽谤罪起诉该网站。今年早些时候,一名法官驳回了此案。)2018年,波特诺伊买下了《叫她爸爸》的版权,最初每年向库珀和富兰克林每人支付7.5万美元,外加基于下载量、商品和品牌酒销量的奖金。根据Barstool的说法,这档节目非常受欢迎,库珀和富兰克林第一年的个人收入就达到了50万美元。波特诺伊和Barstool首席执行官艾瑞卡·纳迪尼(Erika Nardini)没有回应《财富》的多次置评请求。

后来,库珀和富兰克林与Barstool的关系不断恶化,因为她们想要更多的钱,以及节目的知识产权。随着谈判陷入僵局,她们停录了一个多月。

波特诺伊率先做出让步。他在2020年5月表态称,只要两人留在Barstool,他愿意提供知识产权、50万美元起薪,以及更高的销售分成比例。据库珀回忆,她同意了,但富兰克林不答应。两人就此分道扬镳,不再共同主持,不再住在一起,也不再是朋友了。“就在戴夫·波特诺伊说‘我愿意提供知识产权’那一刻,我当场表示,‘这就对了,我什么都愿意做。’”库珀说。

富兰克林给出了另一个故事版本。“亚历山德拉并没有打算把事情搞清楚,她告诉我,‘这件事让我来处理吧,以后我自己干。’她确实这样做了。”在播客《勉强出名》(Barely Famous)2022年7月的一期节目中,富兰克林这样说道。她拒绝了《财富》的置评请求。

库珀在Barstool又呆了一年。事实证明,她单干的吸引力更大:《叫她爸爸》成为Spotify上最受欢迎的女性播客,并跻身全球前五名。2021年,Spotify主动找上门来,向库珀提供了一份为期三年、价值6000万美元的独家授权合同。(库珀说亚马逊的报价更高,但她最终选择了Spotify,因为这家流媒体平台承诺不会干涉她的创作自由。亚马逊没有回复《财富》的置评请求。)

“我知道Spotify给我的待遇至少不会比Barstool差,因为他们对平台与创作者关系的定位,正是我想要的。那就是:‘你想怎么做就怎么做。需要帮忙尽管开口。’”库珀说。

库珀当时正打算将播客定位从露骨的性内容转向心理健康等话题。与Spotify签约后,她开始转向。“在很多人眼中,我完全是一个吹箫功夫很棒,乐于分享性知识的女孩。”库珀说,“毫无疑问,这就是我如此成功的原因,但这也损害了我的形象。”

节目内容转向心理健康和长期关系等主题,并没有影响《叫她爸爸》的收听率。2021年,它在Spotify上排名第二。根据市场研究公司尼尔森(Nielsen)的数据,《叫她爸爸》平均每期能吸引超过500万听众。库珀的听众群结构发生了变化。据报道,早期的男女听众比例为40-60,但现在90%是女性。男性听众的流失并没有让库珀感到惊讶:“对男性来说,节目内容的口味有点太重了。”

令人垂涎的消费群体

库珀决定带我去Catch俱乐部餐厅喝一杯。这是她第一次约会的地方,她当时喝了几杯添加了黄瓜和抹茶的龙舌兰酒。我们照样点了一巡。“小心点,这玩意很上头的。”她警告说。就在库珀浅饮的时候,一群20多岁的白人女性向我们走来:“亚历山德拉·库珀!我他妈的爱死你了!”

这些粉丝正是Spotify不惜重金挖来《叫她爸爸》的原因之一。

库珀说,这个播客的主要受众是18到29岁的女性。听众只能在Spotify上收听《叫她爸爸》。这意味着库珀为这个平台吸引了一个令人垂涎的消费群体。

基准资本(Benchmark)的高级分析师马克•兹古托维茨(Mark Zgutowicz)指出:“这些高端的独家节目极其重要。”他列举了《叫她爸爸》和《乔•罗根体验》等例子。“如果这些播客吸引你进入Spotify,那么你就会被扑面而来的精彩内容和强大的播放列表所震撼——特别是相对于苹果音乐(Apple Music)而言——你就不太可能离开了。”

今天,仅Spotify一家平台就有超过470万播客入驻。根据尼尔森的数据,在过去两年,每月收听播客的美国成年人增长了38%,增至6600万人左右。兹古托维茨指出,Spotify通过诸如《叫她爸爸》这类独家播客向品牌方收取五倍的广告费,因为这些内容的受众不仅极其忠诚,而且兴趣明确,堪称“销售金矿”。

11月份,Spotify的股价跌至历史新低,被迫砍掉了内部播客制作团队Gimlet和Parcast。然而,这场动荡不太可能伤及像库珀这样的高人气主播。事实上,在播客行业通讯Hot Pod的首席记者阿里尔•夏皮罗(Ariel Shapiro)看来,随着这家流媒体平台将资源集中投放在备受欢迎的独家节目上,库珀和其他明星主播反倒成了受益者。《叫她爸爸》等优质播客吸引了大批忠实听众,这有助于Spotify摆脱对音乐业务的依赖——这项业务非常烧钱,因为Spotify需要花费巨资从唱片公司获得内容授权。

爸爸最了解自己

在公众场合,库珀对粉丝非常友善。但一回到西好莱坞,被她称为“爸爸公寓”(Dad Pad)的家中——她平日里就是在这套宽敞明亮的公寓中撰写、录制和编辑播客——库珀的好胜本性顿时在她分享的故事中显露无遗。这位明星主播身穿一套宽松、上下身不匹配的运动衫,没有化妆。她向记者回忆起一个让她爆红的时刻。在一期节目中,女演员朱莉娅·福克斯称自己是“《原钻》(Uncut Gems)导演约什·赛佛迪(Josh Safdie)的缪斯女神。”重点是,她用滑稽可笑的“山谷女孩”口音念出了这部电影的名字。这个音频片段后来被超过5.1万个TikTok短视频引用,获得了数百万的浏览量和点赞数。在编辑过程中,一位团队成员建议她删掉这句话,但库珀决定保留。她说,做出类似这样的决定就是她如此亲力亲为的原因所在。

“我比任何人都更了解《叫她爸爸》。”被问到她是否还会挑选一位主持搭档时,库珀非常坚定地表示,“绝对不会。”一个人说了算,意味着她能决定这个播客的命运。她正在与Spotify协商,寻求开创新的工具,以方便听众在平台上与她的内容进行互动。尽管如此,她不排除在2023年与Spotify的合约到期后创建自己的播客平台,或者把《叫她爸爸》带到其他地方。

手握播客的知识产权,让库珀拥有了比其他创作者更多的选择。她打赢了一场一些艺术家输掉了,但大多数人从未尝试过的战争。众所周知,由于未能从她的前东家大机器唱片公司(Big Machine Records) 和音乐大亨斯库特·布劳恩(Scooter Braun)那里拿回自己的作品母带,歌坛天后泰勒·斯威夫特(Taylor Swift)不得不重录了三张录音棚专辑。

“库珀深知,她向世界贡献的东西很有价值。”哥伦比亚大学法学院(Columbia Law School)克诺坎法律、媒体和艺术中心的执行主任菲利帕·朗加德(Philippa Loengard)说,“对于无数年轻艺术家来说,这是个很好的启示。”

库珀使用的媒介和极具个人风格的叙事视角,奠定了她长盛不衰的根基。沃顿商学院(Wharton School)营销学教授、《疯传:让你的产品、思想、行为像病毒一样入侵》(Contagious: Why Things Catch On)一书的作者乔纳·伯杰(Jonah Berger)指出,播客听众通常要比音乐听众更加投入,这往往能加深他们与内容的联系。

目前,库克正专注于让她的播客成为世界第一。“我永远不会把任何东西置于《叫她爸爸》之上,也绝不会仅仅为了一张支票而做什么事情。”她说,“即使这份合同结束后我没有得到另一份合同,我仍然会继续创作的。我做事,从来都是放眼于未来。”(财富中文网)

译者:任文科

IT’S FRIDAY NIGHT in New York City’s Meatpacking District, and Spotify’s most popular female podcaster is cold and looking for a place to drink. Alexandra Cooper started her podcast, Call Her Daddy, not far from here. She and then-cohost Sofia Franklyn taped the show from their Lower East Side apartment, chronicling their sexcapades through the city. “Sofia and I walk to the subway every day because we’re peasants and we don’t have fucking sugar daddies,” Cooper said in an early episode. Now a limo driver is trailing her around the city, proof of just how much the 28-year-old’s life and career have changed since she launched the podcast in 2018.

Since then, Cooper has transformed her podcaster profile from “sex girl” (her words) to a “role model” (fans’ words). She moved to L.A. She’s gone solo; Franklyn left the show in May 2020. Instead of rehashing her drunken antics, Cooper’s weekly episodes now feature self-care advice and interviews with stars like Miley Cyrus, Hailey Bieber, and Julia Fox. Sex still peppers her podcast—in November she recounted her effort to get a semen stain out of a suede headboard—but she also tackles topics within the safer-for-work zeitgeist. An October episode followed Cooper as she visited a North Carolina abortion clinic. At one point she asks a male pro-life protester if the government should mandate vasectomies for men. “We’re regulating the uteruses; we could also regulate the penises, right?” Cooper asks.

Listeners were riveted early on, and they remain hooked. The show’s popularity earned Cooper an exclusive three-year licensing deal with Spotify in 2021 worth $60 million, a sum that landed Cooper in the same realm as podcast king Joe Rogan, whose three-and-a-half-year Spotify exclusive deal is reportedly worth $200 million. Cooper outearns actual royals Meghan Markle and Prince Harry, who reportedly got between $15 million and $18 million for their three-year Spotify exclusive deals in 2022.

“The Daddy Gang is a bunch of predominantly women that are excited to engage in a roller coaster where we don’t know what happens next, but we’re on the ride with Alex,” Cooper tells me, referring to her fan base. “Let’s talk about mental health. Let’s talk about sex. Let’s talk about dating. Let’s talk about our issues. Let’s talk about our successes.”

Since Cooper joined Spotify exclusively, the streamer says, it’s gotten its money’s worth. Call Her Daddy was Spotify’s second-most popular podcast globally in 2021 behind The Joe Rogan Experience, and it was the No. 1 podcast among female listeners.

“She’s the equivalent of an Oprah or an Ellen because she’s able to touch people in a certain way,” says Spotify chief content officer Dawn Ostroff. “There’s a certain ownership of their femininity in a different way, where women feel entitled to be who they are, to be unapologetic about their sexual lives, to be unapologetic about their ambition and talk about things that are important to them—Alex is truly a leader of that movement.”

Cooper, known as Father among fans, has remade her show—and rewritten some of the creator economy’s rules. Yes, she established a new ceiling for top-earning female podcasters, but she also battled for the licensing rights to her content. Call Her Daddy intellectual property—the podcast and related merchandise—belongs to Cooper alone, according to Cooper.

“With the amount that I put into Call Her Daddy there was no doubt about it that I was going to fight quite literally till the end for that IP,” says Cooper. “I understood what it would do to my career if I lost that.”

She also understood what could happen if she owned it. With the IP rights and a fiercely loyal audience, Cooper, who’s on the latest Fortune 40 Under 40 list, belongs to an elite club of top creators who are not limited by the platforms that distribute their content. She’s already switched her allegiance once, and despite the mammoth Spotify deal, she’s not ruling out doing it again.

MASS LISTENER APPEAL

AS COOPER AND I roam Manhattan’s West Side, she is stopped by three adoring fans within 10 minutes.

“I’m, like, freaking out,” says Ella Sunshine, 21. The New York University undergrad tells Cooper the podcast helped her transition from childhood to living and dating in New York City—as Cooper once did.

“Oh, my God! I love you!” Cooper coos, squeezing Sunshine for a selfie. Many creators will tell you they didn’t intend to become celebrities. Cooper did.

She grew up in Newtown, Pa., a town of 2,000, and attended a $46,000-per-year prep school. The bleach-blonde soccer star started on Boston University’s varsity team and was a midfielder from 2013 to 2015. But she wanted stardom on the internet, and majored in film and television—honing video and audio editing skills she’d taught herself as a teen.

After graduation, her boyfriend at the time, then–Mets pitcher Noah Syndergaard, helped her score a job at a creative agency. Cooper hated it and cried “tears of joy” when she got laid off.

“I got a job through my famous boyfriend, and I was living with him. I didn’t have anything of my own. I was completely losing myself,” she says.

To find herself—and grow her fame—Cooper started Call Her Daddy with Franklyn. The two wanted to re-create the locker room talk Cooper had exchanged with her college teammates. In early episodes, Franklyn and Cooper encourage a man to stalk a love interest, suggest ugly people work harder during sex to appease partners, and glorify abuse as affection. At best their advice was questionable; at worst it was “toxic”— as a fan on Gansevoort Street put it.

“It was two white women talking about sex and sexuality who have analysis as deep as a puddle,” says Raquel Savage, therapist, sex worker, and founder of mental health nonprofit Zepp Wellness, who argues that Cooper’s fame is largely possible because she’s an attractive white woman. “The conversations they engaged in did not shift feminism in any capacity, at least not in a productive direction.”

Cooper cringes at some of the content but has no regrets. “There was no woman out there being so raw, honest, and calling it what it was,” Cooper says. “The whole time my goal was for people’s jaws to just drop, and it took off.”

Just one episode in, the podcast’s raunchy sex appeal caught the attention of Dave Portnoy, founder of Barstool Sports, the sports media empire known for a macho tone that veers into misogyny. (Insider published two stories in 2021 that accused Portnoy of sexual misconduct. He denied the claims and sued Insider for defamation. A judge dismissed the case earlier this year.) In 2018, Portnoy bought the rights to Call Her Daddy, initially paying Cooper and Franklyn each $75,000 a year, plus bonuses based on downloads and merchandise and branded alcohol sales. The show was so popular that Cooper and Franklyn each earned around $500,000 the first year, according to Barstool. Portnoy and Barstool CEO Erika Nardini did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

The duo’s relationship with Barstool soured as they sought more money and the show’s IP rights. The hosts stopped recording for over a month as talks stalled.

Portnoy blinked first. In May 2020 he offered the two ownership of the IP, $500,000 starting wages, and an increased cut of merchandise sales in exchange for staying at Barstool. As Cooper recounts, she was in, but Franklyn balked. The duo parted ways—as cohosts, as roommates, as friends. “The moment Dave Portnoy was like, ‘I will give you your IP,’ I was like, ‘Great, I will do anything,’ ” Cooper says.

Franklyn tells a different story. “[Alex] decided that instead of trying to figure this out, ‘I’m just going to take this for myself and run with it.’ That’s what she did,” Franklyn said on a July 2022 episode of the podcast Barely Famous. She declined to comment.

Cooper stayed with Barstool for another year and proved to be an even bigger draw on her own, with Call Her Daddy becoming the most-popular female-created podcast on Spotify and climbing into the streamer’s top five globally. In 2021, Spotify itself came calling, offering Cooper a $60 million, three-year deal to license Call Her Daddy exclusively. (Cooper says Amazon offered her more, but she chose Spotify for its promise of creative freedom. Amazon didn’t return a request for comment.)

“I knew Spotify was going to treat me the same as Barstool—if not better—because the way they talked about their relationships with creators was exactly what I wanted, which is: ‘Do what you want. We’re here to help,’ ” says Cooper.

What Cooper wanted was to shift her podcast away from explicit sexual content and toward topics like mental health. She started to pivot after signing with Spotify. “I got pigeonholed completely to being the girl that gives a good blow job and has great sex advice,” says Cooper. “No doubt about it—that’s why I was so successful, but it also hurt my image.”

Cooper’s embrace of themes like mental health and long-term relationships hasn’t hurt Call Her Daddy’s listenership. In 2021, it ranked No. 2 on Spotify. According to Nielsen, it garners over 5 million listeners per episode on average. The demographic of Cooper’s listener base has changed. It was split 40-60 between men and women early on, but it’s now 90% female, according to reports. The loss of male listeners didn’t surprise Cooper: “The content got a little too heavy for the men.”

MUSIC TO SPOTIFY’S EARS

COOPER DECIDES we should drink at club-restaurant Catch, where she once threw back several cucumber, matcha, and tequila Detox Retoxes on a first date. We order a round. “Be careful, you get fucked up,” she warns. As Cooper sips her drink, a group of twentysomething white women approaches us: “Alex Cooper! I’m going fucking nuts right now! I love you!”

These fans are one reason Spotify shelled out for Call Her Daddy.

The podcast’s mostly female audience primarily consists of 18-to 29-year-olds, Cooper says. Listeners can only hear Call Her Daddy on Spotify, meaning the show draws the coveted demographic to the platform.

“Those top-end exclusives are most important,” says Mark Zgutowicz, senior analyst at Benchmark, who lists Call Her Daddy and The Joe Rogan Experience as examples. “If these podcasts get you into Spotify, and then you get wowed by the curation and how strong their playlists are— particularly relative to Apple Music— you’re unlikely to ever leave.”

Today, over 4.7 million podcasts live on Spotify alone; according to Nielsen, an estimated 66 million American adults tune in to podcasts on a monthly basis, up 38% in the past two years. Spotify charges brands five times more to advertise via exclusives like Call Her Daddy since audiences of such content are sales gold mines—enormously loyal, with well-defined interests, Zgutowicz says.

Spotify stock cratered to a record low in November, and it laid off staff at in-house podcast production houses Gimlet and Parcast. The turmoil, however, is unlikely to hurt high-profile hosts like Cooper; in fact, she and her peers may benefit as the streamer concentrates resources on buzzy exclusives, says Ariel Shapiro, lead reporter at Hot Pod, an industry publication. Shows like Call Her Daddy that draw large and loyal listenerships are helping Spotify wean itself off the music business, where it spends enormous sums to license content from record labels.

FATHER KNOWS BEST

IN PUBLIC, COOPER is affable and gracious with fans. Back in her Dad Pad, her name for the airy West Hollywood home where she books, records, and edits her podcasts, her competitive nature pokes through in the stories she shares. In baggy, mismatched sweats and no makeup, Cooper recalls one of her show’s most viral moments, when actress Julia Fox called herself “Josh Safdie’s muse in Uncut Gems,” pronouncing the film title with a Valley girl lilt. The audio clip has been used in over 51,000 TikToks, accumulating millions of views and likes. In edits, one of Cooper’s team members suggested she cut the line. She cites her decision to keep it as a reason she’s so hands-on.

“I know Call Her Daddy better than anyone,” she says, answering “fuck no” to the question of whether she’ll ever have another cohost. Her sole control of the podcast means she can decide its future. She’s in talks with Spotify to pioneer tools for listeners to interact with her content within the platform. That said, she’s not ruling out building her own podcast platform or taking Call Her Daddy elsewhere when her Spotify deal expires in 2023.

Owning the podcast IP gives her more options than other creators have. She’s already won the war that some artists have lost but most never fight. Taylor Swift famously rerecorded three studio albums after failing to retrieve her catalog from her former label Big Machine Records and music mogul Scooter Braun.

Cooper “understands the value of what she’s putting out into the world,” says Philippa Loengard, executive director of Columbia Law School’s Kernochan Center for Law, Media, and the Arts. “I think that’s a wonderful example for young artists.”

Cooper’s medium and deeply personal approach position her for longevity. Listeners engage in more active listening with podcasts than with music, deepening their connection to the content, says Jonah Berger, marketing professor at the Wharton School and author of Contagious: Why Things Catch On.

For now, Cooper is focused on making her podcast No. 1 in the world. “I’m never going to put something over Call Her Daddy. I’m never going to just do something for a paycheck,” she says. “If I don’t get another deal at the end of this deal, I’m going to keep creating. I’m here for the long game.”

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